Relational Intelligence: The New Superpower in Education, with Isabelle C. Hau

Full Transcript

Dr. Cristi Ford (00:00):
In our season finale, my guest and I discuss how automation and AI are reshaping education and explore the idea that academic readiness means nothing without relational flourishing. Join me today for another episode of Teach & Learn.
Audio (00:15):
Welcome to Teach & Learn, a podcast for curious educators brought to you by D2L. Each week we’ll meet some of the sharpest minds in the K-20 space. Sharpen your pencils. Class is about to begin.
Dr. Cristi Ford (00:27):
In a world where automation and AI seems to be moving faster than our classrooms can adapt, what is it that makes us truly human and how do we protect that? Today’s conversation invites us to rethink what does success look like in education, not just in terms of achievements, but in our ability to connect, to empathize, and to build meaningful relationships. My guest today I’m so excited about is someone who has been at the forefront of reimagining that work.
(00:56):
Isabelle Hau is the executive director of the Stanford Accelerator for Learning, as well as the author of the book Love to Learn, and she’s a passion advocate for what she calls relational intelligence. She refers to it as RQ, so we’re going to talk a little bit about that here today, and RQ being an essential skill for a thriving human centered future. I had the pleasure of recently hearing Isabelle speak at the Power of Women Luncheon at ASU+GSV.
(01:23):
And it just reminded me that academic readiness is not just about the academic success, but it is nothing without the relational flourishing, and that truly being our superpower to how we move forward. So it’s not about the data, how fast we can project the data, analyze the data, but it’s really about how deeply we connect. So I want to jump right in. Isabelle, welcome to Teach & Learn. I’m so excited and thrilled to have you here.
Isabelle C. Hau (01:50):
Cristi, thank you for having me. It’s such an honor and thank you for your partnership and friendship over many years.
Dr. Cristi Ford (01:56):
Absolutely. So Isabelle, I’m so excited for our listeners to hear a little bit. I want to pick up on some of the comments of the speaking engagement you had at ASU+GSV. I really left that luncheon just feeling powerfully inspired by what you offered. So I want to build on some of that conversation here.
(02:17):
And as we move into maybe your work around Stanford, we’ll just see where the conversation goes. But I want to start by talking about your book, Love to Learn, which I understand was a number one new release in early childhood education in Amazon. So congrats on that significant milestone.
Isabelle C. Hau (02:33):
Thank you.
Dr. Cristi Ford (02:34):
And listeners, we will make sure to drop a link below in the description so you can learn more about the book and where to purchase it. But maybe, Isabelle, if we can just start out by you sharing what really inspired you to focus on national intelligence as a new superpower in education.
Isabelle C. Hau (02:52):
Yeah, thank you. So let me actually dig very directly into the science of relationships, because there is a huge body of scientific evidence and research on the importance of relationships. I like to say that we are all born billionaires. We are born with actually up to 100 billion of neurons when we are babies. But neurons by themselves are not enough. They need to be connected.
(03:32):
What scientists call synaptic connections need to take place. And those connections happen moment by moment through human relationships. And as a matter of fact, 90% of the brain develops before age five is another big period of development in adolescence, and the third period that scientists are starting to really focus on, which is in parenthood and mainly grandparenthood as well, but certainly in parenthood where we are observing also huge brain plasticity.
(04:13):
But what wires the brain is really those serve and return interactions, whether it’s an eyesight, whether it’s a touch, whether it’s a laughter. All these moments of interactions, that’s how we learn as humans. And if I may give one more example on the science, which I find very interesting, is it comes from a heartbreaking, really, truly, truly heartbreaking history in our human global history, which is the Romanian orphanages where anywhere between 100,000 or maybe up to the latest estimates are 500,000 of young children were raised in extreme neglect.
(05:11):
What scientists have been able to observe is that the brains of those children who were raised in those institutions were meaningfully smaller in size relative to children who were adopted in families outside of those orphanages. And so we have evidence that relationships drive either on the positive size bigger brains or in the case of the Romanian orphanage is atrophy in our brains.
Dr. Cristi Ford (05:48):
That’s very impactful as I think, one, I love the framing around us all being billionaires to remind us around the science and then connecting to the research as you just shared around neglect and the importance of relationships and relational connections and flourishing. As I started to read the book, you talk about and Love to Learn, I think you say something to this effect that to love to learn, we must first learn to love is what I remember from the speech.
(06:22):
And so I guess I wonder what does that mean in the context of today’s classrooms? You shared a lot of great statistics. And so if you could just help to frame for our listeners today when you’ve made that comment around to love to learn, you must first learn to love, what do you mean by that?
Isabelle C. Hau (06:44):
Yeah, right now I am actually quite concerned about what’s happening with our children, and specifically so we know that the science of relationship is very strong, but relationships matter tremendously for, as I explained, for brain development, but also lifelong success. Yet the circles of relationships around our children, so the love around our children in some many ways is actually weaning.
(07:16):
So let me just give a few examples that will resonate with everyone before getting into what’s happening in our schools. Families are getting smaller. We all know and hear about the fertility rates going down. We also have for many families grandparents that live further and further away. This is definitely the case in my own family. We also live more and more in age-segregated societies where…
(07:50):
For example, one stat that I highlight in the book, which I found really surprising and still as of today I continue reflecting on this stat, only 3% of children have ever met an adult age 65 or above who is not a family member.
Dr. Cristi Ford (08:13):
That’s crazy.
Isabelle C. Hau (08:14):
It’s crazy. It’s crazy. We clearly live in these age-segregated societies without even recognizing what we do. And then also children, and this is something that I also highlight in the book, and it’s actually across this group, it’s not only in knowledge childhood, it’s also in teenager years and high school years, they have less and less friends. There are a number of data points that we have where we can track how the number of friends and the time spent with friends is also receding.
(08:58):
So anyway, if we know that relationships matter, we have a number of concerning data points that are all societal. Nobody can really tackle any of those. There are societal factors that are driving our circles of relationships around our children to contract.
Dr. Cristi Ford (09:22):
So as I’m listening to you, we’re more disconnected. We’re more dispersed through our communities and our families, and so the ways in which we connect. I’m going to ask you to remind, there was also a statistic you shared in San Diego around children at the age of two and smart devices. Can you also share what we’re not only talking about in terms of our generations or our children’s generations, but small children who are developing now? You shared a statistic, if you can share that, that’d be great.
Isabelle C. Hau (09:59):
Yeah, it’s actually a really recent statistic from Common Sense Media that was published just a few weeks ago. 40% of children under two now have their own device.
Dr. Cristi Ford (10:14):
40%.
Isabelle C. Hau (10:16):
40%.
Dr. Cristi Ford (10:18):
And last time I checked, if you’re under two, you don’t have a credit card. That’s alarming.
Isabelle C. Hau (10:26):
Yes. Cristi, there is a lot of discourse in our media about screen time and the concerns of screens for children and especially young children. I would love to see even more attention also to screens for adults, for the parents, for the families. I have another stat for you, which is also alarming, which is the average number that an American adult picks up their device, which is now exceeding 200 times a day. It’s 205 for this stat.
Dr. Cristi Ford (11:14):
Wait a minute. You’re saying more than 200 times someone is picking up their cell phone in a matter of 24 hours. And in those 24 hours, oh by the way, you’re sleeping on average six to eight of those hours.
Isabelle C. Hau (11:25):
That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. And in concrete terms, what it means is that for those moments when we are with a child, that means that there are many opportunities for technology to interfere with a beautiful relationship. Whether this is a discussion with a child, whether this is a playful activity. And we all know this. I mean, Cristi, you and I are working moms and we know this. Work is coming in our lives and it’s something that is very present. Technology is there, is here in our lives.
Dr. Cristi Ford (12:14):
I listen to you, so thank you for setting the context in terms of societal norms have changed, the rate of technology advancements have improved, but what are we to do about this in the context… I’m thinking about educators who are listening. You offer that there is an opportunity for educators to an instant end schools to start measuring classroom connection and connecting strength along with literacy scores. What does that look like in practice and what are the risks if we don’t? Let’s just break this down for folks.
Isabelle C. Hau (12:52):
Yeah, so let me maybe start with a very good news, which is that every educator I’ve ever met, and I met thousands, if not more educators in my line of work, I find all educators to be deeply, deeply relational. They come into the profession because they love relationships and they stay in the profession because they love relationships. They are relational people.
(13:24):
Now, our systems of education sometimes make it complicated to be relational. For example, if we think about something very simple such as ratios, we have built education systems that have been optimized around universal access and attendance and, in many ways, sorting kids. We have not optimized our systems for relationships. What would it look like for teachers to be able to be what they want to be, which is relational, and even more so?
(14:10):
And this is where maybe technology can help a little bit because, and I know you’re doing some great work on this, Cristi, but could we have technology support teachers on certain tasks that are more administrative-like so that the time that teachers spent in classrooms is more relational? Could we rethink our assessments to embed some concepts such as collaboration and teamwork so that assessments and the vision for education is more relational? Could we think about educators and schools as relationship places? What I call relational hubs.
Dr. Cristi Ford (15:15):
I love this. I love this.
(15:16):
Yeah, I love this, and I love the fact that as you set the foundation for this work, you do it from a perspective of science because I sometimes think relational connection, collaboration get put in boxes that are the soft skills or the sciences. That there’s not as much rigor. But what indeed you’re saying is the beautiful thing is we have a lot of teachers who come into this work and profession because they are relational individuals.
(15:46):
So we already have some of those core competencies, but we’ve built an institutional structure that doesn’t allow us to exercise those muscles and strengths. And so I would agree with you around the technology piece. I know for us here at D2L, that’s exactly what we’re trying to do in Brightspace in terms of really thinking about where can we take some of the administrative load off of faculty members so they can be more relational and they can really have those components.
(16:12):
But I want to go back to the fact that teachers may already have some of these core competencies. They’re interested in being relational. You talk about our responsibility to train teachers, not just in instruction, but in connection. What does that training look like? How do we start to help teachers to build on maybe their foundational passions in being relational to be able to create these essential, this RQ as you refer to it.
Isabelle C. Hau (16:44):
Yeah. And of course, this is at this point more of a vision and we need to evolve with a collective action toward this vision of… And it’s a bold vision of relationship centered environments, learning environments, starting obviously with teacher education toward more connection as opposed to simply instruction. And a lot of teacher training programs are already doing this with a lot of, for example, in-service training that many programs are already doing.
(17:29):
But could we support educators in, for example, simple things such as tracking the number of interactions that we have with each and every child and specific questions about what do they know about that child, what have they learned about that child today or this week or this past move that would drive a change in instruction that would be more in line with a relational aspect in that child, how to best engage with family of that child or people around that child that would be important in that circle of relationships.
(18:15):
Anyway, this is both very simple and different from what we are doing right now in many ways, but I think it doesn’t necessarily… There are a lot of simple steps that we can take from where we are.
Dr. Cristi Ford (18:36):
Yeah, I love that. Also, as I’m listening to you here when you talk about relational intelligence is that it is iterative. It is not static. It is an opportunity. Just as we have figured out how to measure student’s achievement in all these different areas, we need to have some foundational milestones to do that as well. And what I love that you said was you said to be able to learn something new about a student this week.
(19:08):
So just because you had a conversation with a student last month or last week, we are growing, evolving beings. And so that piece is really critical to consider. I want to move us along because I’m imagining if I’m listening to this conversation, one of the things that I know that I’ve heard you say is that you’ve coined relational intelligence or RQ as a parallel to IQ and EQ.
(19:36):
And I guess if I am going to just maybe push here, what makes RQ distinct and why is it so important that we cultivate this now? Because maybe our listeners are like, well, is this really emotional intelligence she’s talking about? So we’d love to be able to unpack that a bit.
Isabelle C. Hau (19:53):
Yeah, great question and let me back up just a little bit. We have had a lot of focus on intelligence as cognitive intelligence in our schools, which is why when we think about human intelligence, most of us, certainly I do, I think about IQ first and all these forms of cognitive intelligence that are GPA or any other form of academic success. We have optimized around this form of intelligence, which is cognitive side.
(20:34):
And over the past 20 years or so, there has been a rise in emotional intelligence thanks to Daniel Goleman and other colleagues who have elevated this notion of there’s actually another form of intelligence we should pay attention to, especially it started in the workplace. So a lot of work environments have been using EQ more and more over the past two decades.
(21:07):
And what I’m arguing for is that while IQ and EQ obviously are very important forms of human intelligence, we need to start thinking about a third one, which is equally if not more important in our future, because our future especially with artificial intelligence rising in our lives, whether it’s in education or in the workplace, I believe that our superpower as humans will be our ability to connect and relate and work with each other. So our capacity to be human, which is what I call relational intelligence, and that’s a little bit different from EQ. EQ is much more self-based. RQ is a close cousin of EQ.
Dr. Cristi Ford (21:59):
I love that.
Isabelle C. Hau (22:02):
It’s more thinking about this relationship was external, our ability to collaborate and relate with others, which is a little bit different from emotional intelligence, which typically is more self-based.
Dr. Cristi Ford (22:17):
I really appreciate that. That’s a nice distinction in terms of focusing on your own identity, own self versus the connection you have with others. Those are very, very different skills. And I agree with you that in the age of AI and automation, that our ability to be human is so critical that we keep that at the forefront. And so I guess I’d love to just maybe park here a bit and say as we move forward, how do we do that? How do we make sure that we are keeping the ethical guardrails and keeping this central focus and making sure that we’re teaching young learners how to do that as well?
Isabelle C. Hau (23:01):
Yeah. I believe this is actually a critical question of our times and I also believe we are at pivotal time of huge changes with artificial intelligence and other technologies rising in our lives. By the way, this is not only me who is saying this. My very good friends at LinkedIn, for example, are saying the same thing. We are calling the future economies relational economy.
Dr. Cristi Ford (23:38):
Okay, future economies are relational economies. I like that.
Isabelle C. Hau (23:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cristi, if we were to look at what are key employers on any of the top list of what employers are interested in or care about, those skills are all… If we start paying attention, they are all very consistently pointing to this relational economy future. So those are skills like collaboration, communication, ability to work in teams, all those are what employers already want and this is our future.
(24:19):
So to your question about how do we then ensure that our little kiddos and our little learners have those skills, this is a critical question, which is why I wrote this book in the first place. And so we all know that human relationships matter. We all know this. But the problem is that they have been invisible in our systems. So we all know this is. I’m not saying anything that nobody… Any listeners here will say, “Oh yeah, this is very obvious. Relationships matter.”
(25:02):
And the problem is the opportunity at the present time to align with this future is to really make relationships visible again. And so in our education systems, could we have more focus on relational pedagogy, relational assessments, technologies that’s a lot more relational that connects us with each other? All these things that we are doing a little bit in part, but it’s not…
(25:40):
How could we have a lot more intentionality and move our education from what it is today, which is very individual based and very cognitive based as we discussed toward an education system that’s much more relationship based and relational in essence? Again, it would require some changes that would be more complicated than others, but a lot of small changes can also take place today in all our lives, whether at home or in schools.
Dr. Cristi Ford (26:21):
As I listen to you, I would argue that foundationally when we talked, you mentioned early childhood and early learners. But as I think about I had Michelle Weise on that wrote the book Long Life Learning, and she was talking about how we are living longer and working longer, and that relational skills are important to our ability to have a full opportunity in life and to upskill.
(26:48):
So as I’m thinking about what you’re sharing here, I think it has applicability across the spectrum in terms of how we think about learning. And I imagine you have conversations that you work in Stanford and that some of this also comes up in some of those conversations as well.
Isabelle C. Hau (27:06):
Yeah, Cristi, thank you for saying this. And let me actually point to two lovely data points. One is relationships in later life, so when we become older, has been proven by some of my colleagues at Harvard University to be critical for aging. So we live longer when we have stronger relationships. And it’s both the quantity, but really more so the quality of those relationships that seems to matter for health/longevity. The other data point that I love, which may also be interesting for anyone listening, is relationships and peak performance.
Dr. Cristi Ford (28:00):
Say more.
Isabelle C. Hau (28:01):
Relationships have been proven to make a huge difference for top athletes and even Nobel Prize recipients. So for example, for athletes, the difference between a gold medalist in swimming and a silver or bronze medalist could be relationships.
Dr. Cristi Ford (28:29):
Really? Not skill.
Isabelle C. Hau (28:32):
Final laps, people think about who they have in their lives and who matters most as a huge driver of performance, of peak performance. Anyway, I find those little data points really interesting and all very consistent on how we and our brains are so social and socially driven for academic success, lifelong health, and more benefits.
Dr. Cristi Ford (29:05):
Well, and I like to say this often that learning is social. And so to be able to be intricately connected in that process, it’s really critical to do those things. And so as I think about the work that I do at D2L as chief learning officer, I think we are challenged and excited by the opportunity that we get to build tools that enhance rather than replace human connection.
(29:31):
So as we are thinking about AI, and I know that that’s something that’s really critical to you when you talk about the importance of partnering with technology, I guess I wonder maybe the work you’re doing at Stanford or as you’re talking with colleagues, what are some key indicators? How do we evaluate whether a key piece of technology actually is doing that well or not?
Isabelle C. Hau (29:55):
In this regard, I love the work from my colleague Kathy Hirsh-Pasek, who has a very simple framework. It has four letters, A for active learning, E for engaging, M for meaningful, and S for social, what I call relational. And she has actually a paper on this framework, but more importantly in analyzing variety of education technology tools for young…
(30:35):
This was done for I believe mostly focused on primary grade tools for primary grade children, but she estimates that a lot of tools, actually 90% of these education technology tools, whether they are apps or otherwise, are not meeting those four criteria that she had established.
(31:01):
So in other terms, there is a number of technologies that are very helpful for learning outcomes and for what I call relational technology, but there is a lot that is not, or what I call in my book junk tech, so how can… And it’s okay to have a little bit of junk tech, like we do have junk food in our lives. It’s okay to have a little bit of it.
Dr. Cristi Ford (31:33):
Just a little bit.
Isabelle C. Hau (31:34):
Just a little bit ideally. And then how can we increase that 10% that is relational technology and that is good from a learning perspective a lot more with a lot more intentionality trying to meet this four framework that Kathy has so nicely laid out.
Dr. Cristi Ford (32:00):
We have to make sure we link to that study as well for our listeners, but I appreciate the focus that you gave us on the framework and then your work in your book talking about junk tech and the contextual, why is junk tech relevant and how do we make sure that we do that in moderation? I guess if I were to start to bring us across the field and close out this episode, I just wonder as people are listening today, you’ve given them some really compelling data around how our societal norms are changing, what things are moving in a different direction.
(32:34):
We know that student well-being post-pandemic has been tough. I guess before I get to my very last question, I just wonder how can we continue to strengthen these renaissance intelligence opportunities to help address the loneliness and disconnectedness that many learners are feeling in classrooms today?
Isabelle C. Hau (32:56):
And again, this is in my mind the critical issue of our times. This starts with any one of us doing very small things such as calling a friend, speaking with a student today, sitting down with them or asking them a question about how they are doing, ensuring that our own children have had relationships in their lives, whether this is making sure that they have had a play date in the past few days or few weeks, that we bring them outdoors in parks or in over public settings to meet with other little ones.
(33:55):
For younger children, making sure that our older children are also connecting with others and encouraging them to do so, whether this is in the form social media can be helpful in this regard or in person, ideally, whether it’s for clubs, high school, or ensuring that they have lunch with another friend. All those very little things can make a huge difference short-term, longer term.
Dr. Cristi Ford (34:32):
I love that. And you’ve given us examples, just very tangible, actionable examples that parents can be doing, that educators can be doing. I guess as I close out and I think about the systems change that’s required to be able to do this well, if every school leader listening could take one small step to maybe prioritize relational flourishing in their building or in their institution, what would you recommend they do first?
Isabelle C. Hau (35:04):
I think maybe asking a very simple question about, are my practices in my school, in my school building, enhancing human relationships? And those practices could be pedagogical one, could be professional training with teachers, could be family engagement, could be recess practices in my school. Anyway, all those depending on age groups, are my practices as a school leader enhancing human connections.
Dr. Cristi Ford (35:44):
I love that. So simple, yet so complex and such a great starting point. Isabelle, thank you for joining us. I’m so glad that you are here with us today. You’re actually helping us to close out season three of Teach & Learn, and I couldn’t figure out a better way to do this as we have curious educators across the globe who listen. And I just want to thank you for your time here today.
Isabelle C. Hau (36:09):
Thank you, Cristi, for having me. Such an honor.
Dr. Cristi Ford (36:11):
Absolutely. If you’re listening, we want to thank you as dedicated listeners and curious educators everywhere. As I mentioned at the beginning, this was our season finale, but we will be back in the fall with all new episodes. And so until then, you can listen and engage with past episodes. Remember to take a moment and follow some social media. You can find us on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook @D2L and subscribe to the D2L YouTube channel.
(36:37):
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Audio (36:55):
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Resources Discussed in the Episode

• Isabelle C. Hau's website
• Buy the book 'Love to Learn'
• Stanford Accelerator for Learning
• Putting Education in “Educational” Apps: Lessons From the Science of Learning: